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The etiquette of child-rearing
The Ealdormere list has turned into a heated debate of etiquette, courtesy and respect in the current middle ages. While I will admit to being relatively unconcerned about how I'm viewed with respect to those things in the SCA as of late (my friends accept me as I am, and frankly, most of the other participants are annoying or insane so I don't really give a shit what they think), it has got me thinking of those subjects in the modern world... specifically with respect to babies and children. Also I was reading a dining etiquette column that addressed all sorts of stuff and kids came up more than once.
So here's my issue... I like to eat out. It is one of the few things my husband and I can do together that takes him away from his computer screen. I intend to breast-feed my child. I'm not sure how best to go about doing this. Many people insist that you should avoid nicer establishments, but that seems like BS to me. Like I should be reduced to eating at chains and "family dining" places because I happen to have a dinner guest that is eating off-menu. That said, I agree that one should not bring a fussy or crying baby (or child) into any dining establishment. Quiet = welcome, fussy = time to go home to bed, no matter what the average price of an entree. Then there's the issue of where and how to feed.
Some people think you should always take it to the restroom. Aside from the issue that most restrooms don't have any seating other than the toilet, and some establishments are so small that the restroom is a single-stalled affair, which if you were in there would prevent other patrons from actually using the facility, there's also the issue that this is still a human being. We don't expect anyone else to take their meal in the toilet, so why must a baby? Then there's the issue of my food getting cold at the table while I wait for my baby to eat. That seems a little less than ideal.
Others insist that anywhere is alright as long as you cover up. Again, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this. No other patrons in the restaurant are being presented with a blanket to put over their heads while they eat when their dinner arrives. I can see this being a good thing in say January in Ontario where it might help to prevent chills. But I'm scheduled to deliver in August in Texas. The thought of smothering my little one under a blanket isn't exactly appealing.
Others think it is okay if you are in a booth in the back corner of the restaurant where no other patrons can see you, but also insist that it is in poor taste and insulting to your dinner companions. I like this booth idea, but I also understand that it may mean waiting ages for a table, and some restaurants just don't have any booths in them, or not any that are high enough to provide any kind of privacy anyway. And how would you feel if you were out to dinner with me and I decided to feed my child?
On the particular dining page where I was reading a debate on this subject, a large number of people were of the opinion that either the baby should NEVER be brought out in public and should be left with a babysitter for the few hours it takes to go to a restaurant. Or that public, restaurant feeding should always be done from a bottle, out of courtesy to the other patrons. Should the potential discomfort of strangers that have not discovered the marvelous ability to avert their eyes trump my desire to not bottle feed my baby and not fork out for and locate on short notice a babysitter for a spontaneous (as most of my dining experiences are) meal out? Is my labeling all these people "strangers" and thus reducing them through my language to unimportant my way of rationalizing bad behaviour? Or is society's demands that babies be treated differently than other humans when they eat and the breast always be identified as obscene really unreasonable? Is saying "if you don't like it, don't look" a childish response to their discomfort?
All these considerations also apply to other public situations I may find myself in... out at the park, the mall or on the beach. If I was at a private party at someone's house I would probably ask if there was a quiet room I could retire to. At somewhere intensely kid-centric like Disney World I'm sure they have facilities for this sort of thing. But there just isn't that much privacy in most public places. And even if you can get to an isolated spot, it may not be safe to do so.
Does anyone out there have any thoughts on this?
So here's my issue... I like to eat out. It is one of the few things my husband and I can do together that takes him away from his computer screen. I intend to breast-feed my child. I'm not sure how best to go about doing this. Many people insist that you should avoid nicer establishments, but that seems like BS to me. Like I should be reduced to eating at chains and "family dining" places because I happen to have a dinner guest that is eating off-menu. That said, I agree that one should not bring a fussy or crying baby (or child) into any dining establishment. Quiet = welcome, fussy = time to go home to bed, no matter what the average price of an entree. Then there's the issue of where and how to feed.
Some people think you should always take it to the restroom. Aside from the issue that most restrooms don't have any seating other than the toilet, and some establishments are so small that the restroom is a single-stalled affair, which if you were in there would prevent other patrons from actually using the facility, there's also the issue that this is still a human being. We don't expect anyone else to take their meal in the toilet, so why must a baby? Then there's the issue of my food getting cold at the table while I wait for my baby to eat. That seems a little less than ideal.
Others insist that anywhere is alright as long as you cover up. Again, I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this. No other patrons in the restaurant are being presented with a blanket to put over their heads while they eat when their dinner arrives. I can see this being a good thing in say January in Ontario where it might help to prevent chills. But I'm scheduled to deliver in August in Texas. The thought of smothering my little one under a blanket isn't exactly appealing.
Others think it is okay if you are in a booth in the back corner of the restaurant where no other patrons can see you, but also insist that it is in poor taste and insulting to your dinner companions. I like this booth idea, but I also understand that it may mean waiting ages for a table, and some restaurants just don't have any booths in them, or not any that are high enough to provide any kind of privacy anyway. And how would you feel if you were out to dinner with me and I decided to feed my child?
On the particular dining page where I was reading a debate on this subject, a large number of people were of the opinion that either the baby should NEVER be brought out in public and should be left with a babysitter for the few hours it takes to go to a restaurant. Or that public, restaurant feeding should always be done from a bottle, out of courtesy to the other patrons. Should the potential discomfort of strangers that have not discovered the marvelous ability to avert their eyes trump my desire to not bottle feed my baby and not fork out for and locate on short notice a babysitter for a spontaneous (as most of my dining experiences are) meal out? Is my labeling all these people "strangers" and thus reducing them through my language to unimportant my way of rationalizing bad behaviour? Or is society's demands that babies be treated differently than other humans when they eat and the breast always be identified as obscene really unreasonable? Is saying "if you don't like it, don't look" a childish response to their discomfort?
All these considerations also apply to other public situations I may find myself in... out at the park, the mall or on the beach. If I was at a private party at someone's house I would probably ask if there was a quiet room I could retire to. At somewhere intensely kid-centric like Disney World I'm sure they have facilities for this sort of thing. But there just isn't that much privacy in most public places. And even if you can get to an isolated spot, it may not be safe to do so.
Does anyone out there have any thoughts on this?
no subject
We take Morgana everywhere, from Tim Hortons to the Fancey Digs the parents want to treat us to. Em feeds her pretty much anywhere, without covering up. If the _establishment_ has a problem (and to date none have) I am sure she would cover up. If a patron had a problem, as far I am concerend they can stick it up their !@# (Em might have a different view on this one :-) )
Once in awhile she has gotten extra fussy while we were out, one of us picks her up, goes to the washrooms, or the lobby and sooths her until she is ready to return to the table. In most places a baby cannot over power the ambient noise + whatever music is playing. If we were completely unable to calm her, we probably would leave, but so far this has not happened.
Each kid will be different, you will know yours, and you will know how to deal with hir. You will also know what your comfort level is, I suggest using it as your guide rather then anyone else idea of what is socially acceptable.
Use a babysiter not becaues you are affraid that you can't take your lovely bub out into the world, but because once in awhile you will need to go out as a couple and acctually focus %100 on each other.
no subject
Babies (newborns esp.) have tiny tummies, and need to feed frequently, and that's before you consider comfort nursing. Breastfeeding is optimal for nutrition+ and comes in a convenient package! You never have to worry about running low, sterilize equipment or check the temperature :)
Little babies also require a lot of sleep (often just after nursing!), and can be surprisingly portable. Add in a sling or stroller (some comfy place to sleep) and pretty much any restaurant or pub is just fine as far as the infant is concerned. (Ok, maybe not one with a live band, but otherwise...)
I personally refuse to go away to feed my baby, and do not use a cover++. I am not a "discreet" breastfeeder, but I try not to be flamboyant either; just natural. Baby is hungry, I feed her.
I do wear nursing shirts often, which provide better coverage than t-shirts, mostly because I don't like exposing my post-baby tummy! A lot of clothing choices can help you be less conspicuous while nursing, and they're generally ones that make nursing easier, too.
As far as crying is concerned (much of which can be controlled with nursing!), I try to think again in terms of the baby, not other people. If she's really upset, am I honouring her needs to let her cry while I finish a meal? I let this guide me when I'm out.
+Not to get down on those who *can't* breastfeed or need to supplement, of course.
++That said, I find that visual connection is important in breastfeeding, so *I* am not as comfortable is covered, either.
no subject
Oh, and depressing news re: The Gap. I don't think they ever had maternity stuff this side of the border. Or at least that was the impression I got when talking to the stunned sales-person earlier this week. So no more nice maternity stuff from a modern, fashionable store. *Sigh.*
no subject
Re: GAP -- try online. I think that the big issue is that they won't ship to Cananda.
no subject
However, none of the gap stores in Austin do. Unfortunately, it looks like the closest one to you is in San Antonio. (http://www.gap.com/customerService/storeLocator.do?mlink=5058,1011546,2&clink=1011546)
There are two Old Navy stores in the Austin area with Maternity sections, in bee cave and round rock. (http://oldnavy.gap.com/customerService/storeLocator.do)
no subject
I guess I'm driving to San Antonio this weekend maybe. Though I might hit Old Navy before I go just in case. I have yet to find anything in Old Navy that fit normal-me, so I'm not holding my breath that their maternity line will be any more accommodating to things like hips and bums.
no subject
Good call on the babysitter thing too, but I think that's going to be a little later into the process.