And we have a winner

[norsegirl]

After much thought and consideration, I think the winning heraldry design will be a hybrid of the other designs I've come up with. Has all my favourite colours and yet still doesn't seem too busy.



I'd love comments and suggestions from the peanut gallery as to how to blazon it and whether or not you think it will pass (with the black bordure on the quartered background the charge is exactly 50-50 on metal and colour so I'm not sure how that will fly). And of course if you hate it, feel free to let me know.


So here's my attempt at a blazon...
"Quarterly purpure and argent, a serpent vert nowed in a Heneage knot inverted within a bordure sable"
Edit: Thanks to Hel for the inverted catch. Have updated blazons accordingly

And of course, if it doesn't pass, I have my fall-back design that I am 95% sure will pass.

"Quarterly purpure and argent, a serpent vert nowed in a Heneage knot inverted"

Comments

Go with Number Two!

[eliskimo.livejournal.com]

Personally, I find the black border a rather heavy and think your "fall-back" design is much nicer.

Also ...

[eliskimo.livejournal.com]

I think the second design is more period, with the primary charge (the serpent) filling more of the avaliable space. The border cuts into your design space unnecesarily and forces a reduction in the charge size.

It also adds another element and thus pushes up the complexity count. Simpler is better. Think "big, bold and butch" when designing period-looking heraldry.

Re: Also ...

[eve-the-just.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, good comments. I will consider them and maybe pin the two finalists up in my cube for a few days while I think about it. Don't have to submit it right away after all.

[hel_ana]

I think I've got to agree with eliskimo on Number 2.

I also suspect you need to blazon the knot as being inverted, based on two things:

1) the pictures I've seen in the google image search I did on heneage knot had them all with the two loops at the top and the one loop w/2 ends at the bottom

2) Sigrid Bríánsdotter's arms, which have the same knot shaped snake except with the head looking right instead of left, are blazoned "Vert, a serpent nowed in a Heneage knot inverted within an orle of birch leaves argent." It's odd.. for some reason, her serpent puts me in mind of a fire lizard of Pern.

[(Anonymous)]

Yup, good catch with the inverted. And this is why I run it past people.

[eve-the-just.livejournal.com]

And that would be me again with the not logged in

[hel_ana]

You need to start making your posts friends-only, so that you have to log in to see your own posts.

If you can do it after a major drama episode in which you declare that you're not willing to deal with the drama so you're f-locking, you'll get lj-tradition points.

[eve-the-just.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't think I'm quite ready to put forth my bid for the golden flounce. Besides, I kinda use this to keep in touch with my non-LJ family, so if they want to say anything I want them to be able to.

[eliskimo.livejournal.com]

That's a line I'm walking to. If I could convince everyone (like my younger brother, a couple cousins, a friend in Hong Kong ...) who I use LJ to keep in touch with to actually join LJ then I could think about Friends-Only posting, but until then, not so much.

[hel_ana]

And I'm so much a moron, not remembering that you'd already linked to the Atlantean webpage with her arms.

D'oh!

However, I think it still needs the inverted

[verybigjen.livejournal.com]

Color/metal wise you are fine, everything is 50/50.

I dislike the black bordure. Too heavy. If it were green it would at least go with snakey, and I think as is it adds another color you dont need (try to stick to three colors = color/metal), heralds hate too many colors

you have a limit on complexity elements, and with purple, white, green and black and a red tongue... that's 5 there beofre you even get into a bordure, quaterly, snake, knot... etc.

I'm not sure that knot will pass you might have to use a differnt more standard know for approval then you just use this one when you draw it.

i'd lose the tongue it DOES make it too busy. actally the knot on the quarterly makes my eyes swim, and I'm a design pro. I think it's too busy even without the tongue, but you can try it.

[eliskimo.livejournal.com]

I disagree about the tongue. If you *want* to blazon the serpent as "langued gules" you could, but it would never be conflict checked against. It's merely artistic license. I like the tongue; it adds just the right touch of Urnes kirk door Norse flare.

Likewise the knot is acceptable. We've already been over that in the previous two posts on this topic. The Heneage Knot appears in Parker, which is one of the standard sources. Also the serpent in Sigrid Bríánsdotter's device which is partly Eve's inspiration is nowed exactly the same way and it passed.

The first device is complex with a count of seven:
argent, vert, purpure & sable (the red tongue doesn't count)
charge (serpent - the fact that it's nowed does not count as an extra element), quarterly & bordure.
The limit for SCA registerablity is eight.

[eve-the-just.livejournal.com]

Strangely, I think I like the black border BECAUSE it is heavy. I like the weight it adds to the design. Then again, I also REALLY like black, and black frames on things, so I might just be tremendously biased.

That said, I am aware that it doesn't look terribly period. Honestly I haven't seen many bordures at all in period stuff that I can think of. That said, the purple and green aren't real period either. Most period heraldry I see is solidly primary colours.

Anyway, I'm trying to walk that line between registerable heraldry and something that will look good on a round shield for my norse persona.

Basically, I REALLY like the snake in that pose. And I REALLY like black and purple. I couldn't really come up with anything black purple and white that was really striking. If you want to take a swing at it, be my guest :) I'd sure appreciate the help.

[eliskimo.livejournal.com]

Well, define "period". Anglo-Norman heraldy favours primary colours and black, but they are not the be-all and end-all of period heraldry and you are not trying to register a device culturally relevant to that time or place.

You're also right that purple was the least popular of the heraldic colours - but in this case I think it might be appropriate to use:

What evidence we have to painted Norse shields seem to indicate a preference for combinations of red, black & white (especially in Dublin and the Isles) and more yellow in places like the settles in northern England (I'm afraid I don't know enough about Scandenavia proper or Iceland) and "fields" that were quartered, gyronny or lozengy.

However, I came across an article on "coloured" clothing in medieval Scandenavian literature and archeology where the author (Thor Ewing) cited the work of Penelope Walton Rogers (1989, 1990) testing archeological textiles for the chemical signatures left behind by dyestuffs, even where the colour had faded, leached or been stained over by something in the soil over the centuries. At the top of the list for Scandenavian sites were indigotin (present in both woad and indigo) and lichen. Woad can either give you blue or green, depending on how it's treated, and lichens give an extensive range of pinks and purples. Ewing also notes that the Norse preference for blues and greens was reflected in a name the Irish called them: Gormglas (which means blue-green).

Therefore, using green and purple on your Norse-inspired sheild makes some sense. They were colours that were appreciated by the Norse, albeit in clothing rather than heraldry, but then the Norse didn't use a lot of heraldry anyway (at least not until they were more Norwegian than Norse).

As for the black border, I understand why you like it, but I'd still advise against it. It makes your design look more modern, like you've "framed" your real design.